DataFramed
DataFramed

Episode · 2 months ago

#106 How CBRE is Increasing Data Literacy for Over 3,000 Employees

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Throughout data literacy month, we’ve shined a light on the importance of data literacy skills and how it impacts individuals and organizations. Equally as important is how to actually approach transformational data literacy programs and ensure they are successful.

In this final episode of Data Literacy Month, we are unpacking how CBRE is upskilling over 3,000 of its employees on data literacy skills through a relevant, high-value learning program.

Emily Hayward is the Data and Digital Change Manager at CBRE, a global leader in commercial real estate services and investment. Emily is a transformational leader with a track record of leading successful high-profile technology, data, and cultural transformations across both the public and private sectors through an ardent belief that change cannot be achieved without first winning people over.

Throughout the episode, we talk about Emily’s approach to building CBRE’s learning program, effective change management, why it’s critical to secure executive sponsorship, and much more.

Looking to build a data literacy program of your own? Check out DataCamp for Business: https://bit.ly/3r7BgsF

You're listening to data framed, a podcast by data camp. In this show you'll hear all the latest trends and insights in data science. Whether you're just getting started in your data career or you're a data leader looking to scale data driven decisions in your organization, join us for in depth discussions with data and analytics leaders at the forefront of the data revolution. Let's dive right in. Hello everyone, this is adult data science educator and evangelists at data camp. Today's the final episode in our four week data literacy month special in today's episode is a special one. Throughout the month we talked about the importance of data literacy and why individuals and organizations need to grow their data literacy skills, and today we're going to be showcasing how CBR e, a data come from business customer, is up scilling three thousand plus people on data treacy skills. Joining us today is Emily Hayward. Emily is the data and digital change manager at CBR e. She is an experienced change and transformational leader in data analytics, with a proven track record and successfully leading high profile technology, data and cultural transformation across private and public sector organizations. Emily takes a fun, engaging and people first approach to designing and delivering data transformation, and she fervently believes that you can't change anything successfully without winning hearts and minds, which is the crux of today's episode. Throughout the episode we speak about the data upscilling imperative at CBR e, how emily has approached building a learning program how to do effective change management and evangelized learning within an organization, the importance of executive sponsorship when delivering these programs and much more. If you enjoy this episode, make sure to rate, comment and subscribe to the podcast, and if you're also looking to approach data upscolling at your organization with data camp, make sure to check up the link we left in the description box. Now onto today's episode. Emily, it's great to have you on the show. Oh great, thank you for having me. I am so excited you're joining us for the literacy month and I'm looking for it to deep dive with you on the illiteracy program at CBR e, how to do effective change management, the importance of data skills and much more. But before can you give us a bit of a background about yourself? Yeah, of course, so my name is Emily Hayward. I am a data and digital change manager here at CPR A and my role is essentially it's all about the people's side of digital change. So, in a nutshell, like how can we engage, inspire and equip our people with the right tools, the right knowledge and support to leverage data effectively? Often I see across many years of doing change management that a lot of organizations they spend thousands, hundreds of thousands on new tools in tech and then they simply just end up like they will launch the program without really thinking too much about putting the end user or the end learner at the heart of it, and then they wonder why their program or project is struggling with adoption or realizing return on investment and business value. Say, part of my role is to really understand how people are impacted by change. For example, you know how do they currently work? What are their motivations and resistance to doing things differently? What does the need process, technology or learning mean for their roles and ways of working? And how do we ensure that, once the project team or the learning program delivery team steps away, how do we make sure that it just becomes like part of how people do business and go about their regular, everyday roles. So how do we ensure that engagement and adoption continues and doesn't just drop off a cliff? So I've been doing it for a number of years now, both across private and public sector organizations. I started at the financial conduct authorities, so, if you're not a UK listener, that's essentially are Yuki, financial services regulator. So I started they're doing technology and...

...change, communication and engagement strategy, and then I moved into change management, so helping colleagues across the business adopt new data science and analytics tools. And now work at CBR A, so cror, the market leader and commercial real estate, and here my role is to partner with the business to help them realize their data and digital ambitions by through technology tools, skills and cultural change. So that's about it in a nutshell. Idol, I love that and I love how you die in the importance of your role towards the broader picture of how organizations do a lot of technology investments without necessarily thinking about the people component. And so why I'm really excited to unpack today topic with you. So I'm very excited to set the stage for today's conversation, but really understanding the why behind a lot of data upscaling programs that you're leading at CBR e. So maybe in your own words, emily, what goes through why they absolutely so important at CBR e? So maybe I'll just give you a bit of background on CRI and exactly what we do. So I'll start there. So CBR ere a global leader in commercial real estate. We have over a hundred and five thousand employees. We serve clients like one hundred countries around the world and essentially what we do is we help clients realize their potential in real estate, whether that's helping the maximize value on their current future properties, whether it's working collaboratively to implement innovative work solutions or giving them advice an insight into to help them support their investment decisions. So our business, essentially it's all about delivering exceptional outcomes for clients. It's relationship focused and it relies on our people having the best information, the best data and the best insights at their fingertips so we can deliver the very best client outcomes. So that's why enabling every person at CBR e to realize their data potential and take their data skills to the next level has never been so important, like it's really crucial to our future as an organization. And then, just off the back of that, obviously today's clients are more connected and informs than ever before. They're wanting in increasingly sophisticated services and advice. They want more advanced insights to justify their investment decisions. That CBR E, we've always used data and information to deliver great client services, to delivering pactful insights and to make evidence based decisions. So going about using data and using data to justify decision making it is nothing new for us, because our people have done it every single day since the BRA's inception. I think the differences now is that the volume and complexity of the data we hold is just growing exponentially. I mean we have got absolutely loads of it. So we can no longer rely on who and what we know to win business to deliver a world class service. So data is increasingly becoming for us at CBR A. It's a competitive differentiator and it's increasingly pivotal to helping us understand our clients, anticipating and predicting their needs and, as I said, delivering a market leading serve and our people are an integral part of that transformation. It's not enough for us as an organization to have data and tools alone. We need to have our people to have the skills and the knowledge to confidently read, analyze and communicate with data every single day. And for us we just believe it's too much of a valuable commodity to be the sole remit of data experts and data scientists and data analysts. That's why we're sort of on a mission at CBR A to upscale absolutely everybody across the UK and island to work with data more effectively. That's sort ofwesome and I love the way you said the stage for one, how it benefits not only CBR employees but also see CBR e stakeholders and customers, and frame it through the way the industry is moving as well. Moving on to the crux of...

...today's conversation, you mentioned here the upscilling program that CBR e has a very, very ambitious program I'm very excited to impact with you this, this program at CBR e. So can you first start off by giving a general overview of the program what it looks like? How it's structured and how many people it impacts within CBR e. Our data mission is to empower everyone across our UK and Ireland workforce to do more with data. So that roughly equates to around three, you know, half thousand people more or less upskilling. So we want to we want, on day one when we launch our program for there to be something for everybody. So everyone, no matter where they are on their data journey, whether they're a novice, whether there's someone that's really advanced with the PhD and data science, whether there's someone Genia, whether there's someone that's really seen here in the organization from day one that we want there to be something for them to upskiller. said that is the mission to provide some think for everybody. So it is ambitious. It's three and a half thousand people going through this program they all have different needs, different reasons and different motivations for wanting to upskill, a need into upskill. So of course, to deliver this you need a great team behind it, because great upskilling programs are delivered by great teams. To just give you some sort of context of about the program how we're delivering it. From the start it was really important to us that we carefully designed our project team with a diverse mix of skills and experience so we could deliver an impactful, inclusive and relevant learning program so, to give you an introduction to the program so we have one project team which brings together around nine people from across CBR and data camp. So data camp, you guys. Obviously we chase you as our preferred learning partner. It was one of the best decisions we've made for this program. So we've been working together for a couple of months now and, honestly, I'd like it genuinely feels like we're just one big team. Like it feels like we're one team. It really does. We've got shared values, shared goals and, I think, all of us, what holds us all together is that we all have a genuine desire to transform our organization through upskilling and we're all on the same page about it. Um, the data camp for us, like, I know it's a separate company, but you guys really do feel like part of the CBR fabric. Like, honestly, the data camp guys on our projects. They could honestly be like another CBR e colleague. Like that's just how good the dynamics are between us. We feel like we've got got the a team in place right. So with that then, so from the CBR e side of things, we've obviously got an executive business sponsor, so that person helps to determine the value of our program to leadership and see suite stakeholders. They're really involved in beerheading this a senior level and communicating it to the wider organization. We've got senior leaders from learning and development, from digital laborment, digital transformation. So we're making sure that at the very top of the organization we've got the right people involved in this. And then from people on the ground type perspective, we've got L N D specialists. We've got myself as a change manager and project manager on the program From Data Camp Side we've got our customer success managers, product marketers. And then it's not only the delivery team that is responsible for making this happen. Like we're the ones doing a lot of the Legwork, but I think what a lot of people don't realize is it's not just about the delivery team. You also need a great support team to really make the COMMS and engagement and awareness campaign around a data literacy program in patful. We do draw on expertise from internal COMMS branding. At data camp they've got like the evangelist team, they've got really good data curriculum experts. So there's a much wider project team that are...

...drawn in to help support the programs. So it takes ability it or it really does. It definitely does and I really appreciate one our partnership, but also how you've approached the program and I'm excited to unpack all of these different elements, from evangelism to architecting the program as well as the different learner personas that you have. So starting off with the personas, and regardless of where you are on the spectrum of data skills, whether you're absolute beginner or you have more advanced data skills, there's often a multi persona approach different folks go through for these learning paths. So can you walk us through the different personas, if any, within the upsocline program that you have at CBR e and how you approach defining these personas? Yes, so, as a change manager when it comes to Persono mapping, I always start really high level and I bring it back to like the change delivery framework, and for us, the change delivery framework that we've followed for this program is something called ad car. The add car is a change management model. It's basically an acronym for five outcomes an individual needs to achieve change and be successful in changing. So those five acronyms are awareness of change and why, why it's needed. It's also desire. They've got to have a desire to want to change. They've gotta have the motivation to want to do it, knowledge, the knowledge of how to change, the ability to change, and the last one is about reinforcements, so reinforcing the learning and applying it in their everyday role. So this is a really powerful model that it looks at change from the individual's perspective, which is the best way to deliver change. Like look at what does the individual need to go through this change successfully. So, in terms of like the persona mapping that you were talking about as a change management person, that starts in the awareness phase. So for us at CBR e, how we did that is we identified our stakeholders that we're going to be involved and we started an organizational wide engagement campaign to raise awareness of the program and as part of that campaign, we asked for earlier adopt and change champions for each business area to step forward so they could represent their area, help shape learning for their colleagues and be eyes and ears on the ground. So people that were going to champion this to their wider business unit, get their colleagues involved and get that buying at a local level. So with that we're targeting the whole organization, but we're also then, like, picking out advocates in each area that can really represent their area and help shape the program and also the colums and engagement that come out of it. So then, secondly, with like the person as you were talking about, we then moved into the desire phase of the ad car model, so creating a desire for people to want to change, to want to up skill. So to do this we use surveys and focus groups to get to know our earlier doctor community really well. So here we use those surveys and focus groups to understand things like key roles across the business. How do they interact with data today? What are their current pain points with data, like what really gets on nerves, like what really frustrates them data are? What are the opportunities to improve existing processes through upskilling. What would they do in an ideal world if, like data skills and tech wasn't a barrier? What would they what are the cool things that they'd be doing with data? How would they be using it to win more business, serve our clients better, get better insights and outcomes for our clients? And then, lastly, like some key things as part of those focus streets, is also exploring what are people's motivations and resistance to change and what exactually do they need to feel supported and be helped to upskill effectively. So through doing that sort of discovery work with our early adopters, it really helped build a picture of our learners Um and that sort of resulted in US distilling most of our people into five key LARN EPERSONAS FOR CBR A, and this is this might be common across a couple of across many organizations. For us, our key personas are leaders, managers, people in client facing roles, people...

...who non client facing roles and our data and technology practitioners. So we've got five key ones for us. Now there's like nuanced and complexity within each of those, but broadly each person across our UK and island business will probably map into one or two of those persona groups. So they'll be able to look at that and be like, oh, that's my one, I fit in there. They can see themselves and why this learning is important to them. So those personas, they were really important for helping us to create desire amongst colleagues because, one, it helped us build the platforms, so our early adopters were really integral to shaping learning for each persona. We could really sort of understand, like what learning did they need, and we could justify why we've given them some learning content over others based on their persona and their role. It also helped us to cooms, an engagement, so it helped us to personalized messages and our comms approach and and the keeping for this as well was like bringing to life through comps and engagement and these personas. What's in it for me, because I guarantee you that's all people really care about, like, what is in it for them? How is it going to help them be smarter, quicker, better, more productive at their job? Stay part of the persona work really helped bring that to life for people. What what does it mean for them on the ground? And then the two other things were around stakeholder engagement. So the personas helped us reach more difficult stakeholders because, working with our earlier dopts as, we were really able to understand, for each persona group, who are the most resistant people in this persona group? What's the best way and what are the best tactics to win them over, because guaranteed any change project, any upskilling projects you work on, you're always going to have your naysayers. You're always going to have those people that are really difficult to win around, that don't want to change, that are afraid of changing, that are scared to do it or they don't want to do it, they don't have enough time, all of that sort of stuff. Say those persona is really key in helping US identify who those popular people or populations of people were and how to address them. And then, of course that sort of just feeds into our rollout plan. It helps us put like more bespoke solutions in place with different types of stakeholders. So, for example, our data practitioner community a really data savvy. Some of them have data camp already, so they probably need a lighter touch than maybe our C suite, which data might scare them and they need a bit of hand holding. So it's really helped there. So I think through following that sort of Ad Com model, like driving the awareness, thinking about what needs to change for them, thinking about how to give them the ability to change, linking it back to them role. It's it's really been quite powerful for us. That's really awesome and I love the holistic answer hearing how you provide that framework towards how you determine the personas. One thing I think a lot of organizations ruggle with is that early stage of how do you determine your learning personas, and your answer really clarifies a lot of different components that go to it. Maybe diving deeper slightly into identifying the challenges of Persona may have. Can you work us through maybe the different best practices and lessons that you can share from exactly that mapping exercise that you've did by running focus groups and what, if it falls, other leaders need to avoid when running such exercises? I would do the focus groups and because that really helps you understand people on the ground, like how they work today, how they interactive data, what tools and tector they use, because data is a broad topic and I think we were sort of finding in some of our focus groups just how broad people thought it was. Like it's about how they manage. For some people it's about how they manage their emails, how they talk to people on teams, where they store all their data, as well as about how you collect it, how you visualize it, the different tools that you use. So it's important to understand through those focus groups, what is people's definition of data, because it's all different for a lot of different types of people. So by understanding that, you can understand well, this is people's understanding of data today and...

...this is where we need to shift it to so that when you're starting from day one, you've got that definition ready to go with, so people have a common understanding about when we talk about data and getting better at data ropskilling, what exactly do we mean? So I think that that's quite key. I think getting to understand sort of people on the ground, their roles, etcetera, is really key, because how do you know what you're going to change or how how are you going to paint the vision of what people need to change if you don't know where they are today? Like people need to see the journey. They need to understand what the gap is so they know then how what success looks like when we get there. So those focus groups are really key for understanding that first part. So it makes it easier for people to actually make the jump to the end goal, which is being your data literate. So I think that's quite key. And then I would also say, if to any other organization listening, like pilot your program so if you've got champions and you've got earlier adopters that are in, I would definitely pilot the program with them. So get them into the platform early, set up some surveys so you can collect data from them, up some sort of like focus groups so you can ask them, like face to face, how did they find the learning, what was relevant to them, what helped them in their roles and why. I sort of advocate that as two folds. So one, it helps collect testimonials for the programs. So it really helps you come as an engagement because you can get testimonials that you can use in launch. So real life examples across your early adopters of where the programs added value, what they've got out of it, what they're able to do better as a result of having done the up Skilling. So it really offers like a compelling example when you go to launch to the Wide Organization of Oh, so and so over there, did x y said, Oh, yeah, I want to learn that, like that sounds really interesting. So it creates momentum in the launch. So I would definitely do the pilot for that reason to get those testimony was up front, so you've got great examples come launch time. But then too, it also helps you fine tune the program so you can be confident that on day one the learning that you put in there has been tested. You can robustly say that it works from the majority of people that are put in those persona groups. And it also means that you can take some learning out or you can fix the modules or shape the learning to see people if they say it's not relevant. So you've got the opportunity there to learn a few lessons and get it right before launch time. So if you're listening guys like definitely put a pilot in. Don't just go straight into launching it. Like put a pilot in, see what works and then lets an adapt your approach from there. I completely agree, especially on that camp side as well. Like if you're able to from the pilot and relatively safe environment, like a lot of great the seremonials, to drive higher excitement for the wet organization. That's such a massive win for the rest of the program definitely. I think I'd also add to that is like plan ahead, like really put this on people's radars early, because people are busy, they have a look going on. It sometimes takes more than one attempt for someone to get the message or to be aware that something is coming. So you need, especially with a large organization, you need to do that quite far out because there's so many people you need to reach. So I'd plan early, put it on people's radars early so they can get their head around what's changing and the fact that this is coming. It's not shocked to anyone when it lands on their doorstep and they've been told they've got to do it. And I think the other important point is you have to get leadership on board and brought in, because people will follow great role models and people will do it if the leadership say it's important and a role modeling that behavior from the top. So I'd get them on board. If you've got like leadership forums or leadership, strategic meetings, monthly sort of board meetings, whatever that might be for your organization. Get on that agenda, have a really great like presentation to deliver and pitch it to them and really sell for them, because...

I think when people go to leadership they sometimes go with this is our program and this is what we're going to do, and they go with the nuts and bolts of the program but they infrequently answer the question of what's in it for me? And leaders want to hear that as well. They want to hear how data up skinning is going to benefit their bottom line, their people, their productivity, how many clients they are able to win over and impress. So really sell to leadership what's in it for them and why they should be brought into it, why they should be champion it, and just make sure you can find as many opportunities from the beginning, where you're doing when it's all the way to launch, to keep those people engaged and make sure you've got a great sex sponsor on board that can maybe get some of those leaders that are a little bit harder to get behind your mission. Get your executive sponsor to get involved in help winning the mover completely agree on all of these notions and really appreciate that. Inside. So you mentioned here are the five different personas within the program what are the skills that you're looking to grow within the different personas? Yes, it means something different for everyone. So I think for leadership, I mean, and this is the key thing, to make sure leadership know what it means them. That that's where the persona mapping is really useful, because for our leaders, they might never need to know how to collect data, they might never need to know how to analyze it or visualize it because they've got people underneath them that are capable of doing that Um, but they do need to know how to make more confident data lead decisions. They do want to know how to spot opportunities and risks better. They do need to know from the data that they get in reports and dashboards all that sort of stuff, how do I ask better questions, more intelligent questions, of the data I'm receiving, that they need to be able to look at what someone's given them and be able to interrogate it properly, not just take like whoever created its word for it, you know what I mean, which can happen especially when I, like you, think, well, they're the ones of the data expertise, I'll just implicitly trust them. So they've got to be able to ask better questions of data. And then, for them, it's all about for our leadership, it's about managing their data talent more effectively. It's about understanding, and not just to across their data talent, but across their workforce, like the depth and Breadford data skills and where they can plug skills gaps more effectively. How can they effectively manage resources on projects and plan future headcaps? If you know what the map, mapping of data skills is across the workforce, all of those things become a lot easier for our manager population. It's all about swipping flipping the switch from reactive to proactive, so being able to identify risks opportunities get ahead of things like attrition, burnout churn. It's all about empowering teams to make the right decisions with confidence and empowering their teams to navigate challenges ahead effectively because they feel more confident in making evidence based decisions. For our client facing teams and people, it's all about visualizing data better, communicating it better by doing that, they'll be able to create more trust and credibility with clients, who need that data to justify their investment decisions. For our client facing teams, it might also be about if we've got better data and we're able to better understand our clients from that data, they can also personalize client pitches and marketing because they'll be able to anticipate what our clients want before they even ask for it. They'll be able to look at key trends and patterns in the market. What are clients really looking for nowadays? How can we tailor our marketing approach so they understand that we're really well seated to deliver what they need? And for client facing teams, it might also be about optimizing sales processes, so driving efficiency throughout the sales process, understanding top performing products, markets, salespeople and breakers where there are opportunities to cross sales. For client facing teams, it...

...really is like it can be a complete game changer in terms of revenue generation, but also like providing just amazing results for our clients. And then, lastly, like non client facing teams. I mean there is a bit of crossover with the client facing but it's about funding the right solutions to problems. So if you do have a problem or you've got a business challenge, be able to look at the data that might be creating that problem. It's about deep diving into problems better. It's also about making better evidence based decisions than backing up arguments as to why there might be a case for change or why they want to might introduce a new technology or a new process. If you've got the data and the evidence behind that and you're able to present it in a compelling and credible way, you're more likely to push through your projects. Sometime, you're more likely to get funding for something, you're more likely to get budget for that new initiative next year or new headcounts for a new program that you've got starting. So it's all about better decision making and better problem solving. And then, lastly, for our data practitioners, I mean for them, I mean they have to update their skills set all the time. Ranks, new technologies and new tools are always coming into the market. So for them it's all about sort of keeping their schools relevant, keeping them current, keeping up to date with what's going on in industry. But it's also about for them maybe even business skills, like thinking about how they can apply like their data and analytics techniques to solve like real business problems for them as well. It could also be about for some areas of the business, we've got a lot of data analysts. Some really want to get into the data science elements, so predictive models and analysis, machine learning, being able to put the best opportunities and trends in the market, being able to sort of like predict client behavior and what they're going to need next. They I think for our data practitioners it's both getting to know the business better, but it is all so about developing some of those data science skills as well. So it really is like a bit of a mix. I love the level of personalization that you're applying here across all of these personas. One traditional wrinkle, hearing challenge with rolling out such an ambitious program is the sheer number of people involved in the upscaling. So how have you approached upscaling three thousand people almost, and what are some of the challenges associated with upslaining such a large amount of people? Yeah, I think one of them is making it really, really relevant for people. So I mean we've bucketed people into these five personas, but I think there's obviously going to be people that need a bit more hand holding than others and need to be told how, individually it really can be fitted into their roles. So I think like getting management on board is a big part of how you address that, because us as a program with so many people, we are never going to have the bandwidth to sit down with each and every individual person and really think about, well, how do you embed it into your every day role? How do you just make the part of like how you do business and how you work and operate? It's never going to happen. So our management community is a huge part of that. Say for us, like when it comes to roll out. So one we've got managers that are on the earlier access program so they're coming to the focus groups, they're doing the surveys, they're part of the early access program they're piloting the learning for their people, so they're already helping to shape the program and advocate it to their teams. So I think it's important to to not just have a lot of junior people in the program because often with stuff like this, and I think other people in different organizations will have the same problem. Business areas tend to put forwards, like their graduates or their like associates and senior associates forward for this type of thing. But actually to create a learning program that's relatable to everyone, you have to have a mix of leaders, managers, technical colleagues. Your pilot group has to represent it has to be an accurate representative of the wider organization so you know you're delivering something...

...that will work for everyone. So get your managers involved and then I also think, like for us, we're going to be having briefings with our managers. So part of that briefing is talking to them through the program giving them a bit of a talk kit. So we're putting a Tal Kit together on how they can make this learning work in their teams. So it could be that they do a course together or they do a module together. So there's a module in data camp called, like, what is data literacy? We're toying with the moment about getting teams to do one chapter of that module together as part of a team meeting, that everyone starts off like with the same experience. It becomes like a team thing that they can do together. It's something tangible that managers can actually action on, and then just giving them sort of pointers on how thinking about how to embed this into their every day how to make sure that we're continually like reviewing people's like learning and development plans for data skills, rewarding and recognizing our people when they put their data skills to practice and complete learning on data camp. So you really have to make sure that we've got that group on board and that they really have like a concrete, actionable plan of what they can do with their people. And then and then I also think it's about performance measurement. Like you have to be able to know when a program has been successful, and we've got a really good school card in place for our program so we're assessing it against a number of different benchmarks and we've got some really ambitious targets and we're going to be reviewing that periodically after launch to go where are we now, what's working well, what's not working? Where is it not working, who is it not working with, and how can we put interventions and plans in place to reach those people? What areas need a bit more love and attention, what areas are flying and how can we share their success stories wider. So it really is about not just launching and then being like well, well, we've done that now, like let's move on. This is something that's here to stay and I think when people know it's here to stay and they know that they're going to be regularly reviewing it, holding managers accountable, holding the business accountable, then that's where I think that we'll really start to get that adoption and it will just become part of how people learn and how people do like data lead business across C B R a. One thing that gets across and most of the answers that you've had so far on the theme in our discussion is really with importance of evangelizing and answering that key question for the learner at TB R E, which is what's in it for me. So how have you approached answering that question and can you share tactics that you found worked really well to evangelize the program? So first of all, I think you've got to have great comms and marketing and branding. Like for so MANYITA literacy programs that I've seen, they're using like bog standard like presentations, just your standard like corporate template. They've got a couple of bullet points on a few a few sides. As to why it's important. I would definitely say one of the things that's really stood out for our program is our branding team have just been amazing. Like our presentation packs are comms collateral that we've got on our plasma TVs, on our screens, posters, all of that sort of stuff, marketing collateral, video collateral. It stands out, it POPs. It's got a distinctive look and a distinctive feel. People look at our program and they it doesn't just look like corporate compliance training, which everyone we've got to do it because it's necessary evil, do you know what I mean? But people look at and go oh, do you know what I mean? Every year, like, Oh God, we've got to do that again. I don't want anyone to look at our program I think that. I want them to think it's exciting, want them to be curious, and our branding does that. It's really slick and it stands out. So I think get your brandsing and your comms right, like if you've got a branding team in your organization and you've got a good internal COMMS team like we do, like definitely join up with them to create something visually engaging, because I think if it looks good,...

...people will want to read it, they want to look at it, they want to go and find out more. So make sure it looks good. This second point I want to make is around internal COMMS. So we've got a great internal COMMS team and we have made sure that you cannot miss our data upskilling program anywhere. It's on the Internet, it's on the plasma TV screens. So we've been doing like town hall sort of road shows, so going around every service line, getting it in front of people's faces, like putting presenting it, showing videos on it, really evangelizing in person the benefits, because it's really not enough nowadays. People are busy. It's not enough to just put sign up on the internet or send an email. You have to get in front of people and and I think that's the most impactful thing. Actually, a lot of our face to face interactions and people see how passionate like our project team means, how passionate our data camp partners are in this program. It's infectious, I think. So that would be my other sort of point is really put people on your program that aren't just delivering it because they have to, or aren't just delivering it because it's part of their performance subjectives and they're just coming into work to do a job. Get people on your program to lead it, that are really going to be passionate and energized about it, because that rubs off from people. People buy into people and they buy into people that believe in what they're selling. So find who those people are and put them on your program and then, I think thirdly, I mean if there was another tip I'd give, it would genuinely be to get people on your program that have great change management experience and, if they don't have a good change management background, get people that really know how to put the learner at the heart of something. They can empathetic, they can put themselves in the learner's shoes all the way through and think what would I need at this point? What would I need going into pilot? What would I need coming up to launch? What do I need on Day One of my launch? Day? One Week, one month, one month six. You have to be able to have people on the program that, all the way along, have got that learner in mind and never take their eye off off the ball. With that and I think as long as you've got that, as long as you're thinking about the learner every step of the way, that's just really going to help. And lastly, I do think that persona work is really powerful because that persona work will brings to life, especially through the earlier adopted groups. Definitely have early adopters because that will help bring to life for each persona real life examples of where the learning can help, real life pain points which other people listen to and think, Oh, do you know what? That really annoys me as well, like I really hate doing that, like I wish there was a quicker way to do that process, or I wish there was a way to automate this or make my presentations more impactful, showcase my data better, communicate it better, whatever it might be. So do the persona work, get your earlierdoctors involved and really have those concrete, real life it's aren't halls that help win other people over. That's really great and I love just the way you think about the importance of evangelism and marketing and putting the message out there is so important. Maybe somewhere related to this is how do you approach objection handling? When someone is not yet convinced. You mentioned here there could be Nay Seras or could be people are not convinced. How do you approach these conversations and how are you able to bridge that gap? Yeah, well, we're all you're always going to have opening. It matters like if it's an upskilling paragraph, a new piece of technology, a new torny process, whatever it might be. Every every change, you have those nice says. I think the keeping for me is you've got to have a really good, concrete reason why, and I think your why has to be personal. So for us, when we were starting, I think we were thinking about it very generically, like this is going to help people be more productive, it's going to help them win more business, deliver better client outcomes and be fit for the future. Now those things sound great, but the in person hearing me saying it's like yeah, but don't really know what that means for me, like I still don't understand,...

...like you haven't given me compelling enough reason why to do it. Because productivity, like what am I going to be productive in? What am I going to do faster? which clients am I going to impress more? It doesn't mean anything. So I think you have to get to those concrete, real life, real world examples to really bring it to life and with that persona works. So we've got a one page for each of our personas and on those personas it talks about you know, it literally says that. I've got it up in front of me. It literally says, like what's in it for leaders? And I think you've got to have that in your back pocket when you're talking to people, whether it's like a leadership forum or a town hall, you've got to have in your back pocket what is in it for them, like what is what are they what things really paying them at the minute? What opportunities do they want to take advantage of? Have that in your back pocket when you go into those conversations and be prepared to just you don't have to go through like your whole pitch for each own you just bring out a feuge, you know what I mean, like for leaders, this might mean this, for client facing teams it might lead this. You don't have to go through an exhaustive list, but just give them, just give them a flavor of what's to come and then if you get challenge off the back of that still then you've still got like ten other answers on your list that you can go. Okay, well, that didn't win them over, but what about X, Y Z. So definitely be prepared with these people. It might even help as well. So at the beginning of change management, when you're mapping out your stakeholders, we often do like resistance tactics and planning. So you think about, like, what are all of the challenges that someone's going to throw it you for this program? What are they going to say? Is it going to be they don't have enough time, status CROB already works me. Why do I need to change? I like the process. We've already got. Whatever it might be. Write it down and think of like how you would handle it, and then you're going into those conversations with the naysayers prepared. And then I think, lastly, around people that are negative or quite resistant, I am a bit sneaky and I always think who are those people listened to? WHO influenced them? Like if I know as well that I've got particularly like someone that's very resistant, very then they're very senior and I know that that person has influence on like hundreds of people underneath them. I think who would that person listen to, and then I go to the person that they would listen to, who probably is more warm and receptive to what I'm doing, and then I get them on board. And then I'd ask them then, and this is part of the executive sponsor role as well within the program, I get them to go well, we've got this group of stakeholders over here. They probably won't listen to me because I'm too low down the pecking order, but they might listen to you and they definitely listened to their peer or someone's senior than them. To have a strategy, get other people on board that are going to evangelize your case and and bring them around. And if that doesn't work, get their people on board because of done, especially if it's like more senior people that are resistant to change, the people underneath them are the ones that feel the pain of not being data led most acutely. They get them on board and when they soon start hearing that people who numbers are talking about this and it's getting momentum, I mean they have to stop and listen to it at some point. So if you can't get them directly through having like great retorts, great resistance, tactics go around, is what I'd advise. That's really awesome. Emily. Now, of course, emily, as we close out what is next for the the literacy program at Tbr E. So, of course, I think the big mile stone for us is actually launching our program and I'm so excited for it, like I actually can't wait to show people like what has been months and months of hard work from both CBRAS end and the data camp end and also, like can't make to just see like all the hard work and the input of our amazing early adopter groups come to fruition, because obviously they've been a huge part of US pulling the program together and really...

...making sure that learning is relevant and impactful for everyone across our organization. So we've got the launch at our launch we've got like a great keynote speaker for the first day. We've also got local regional rollouts as well. It was really important for us that this didn't just feel like a great initiative from London and all the other officers just get on board. We really wanted every single office to feel like it was their program for their people, whether you're in Scotland or Manchester, Birmingham or Dublin. We wanted every single office to have a launch and feel the buzz around the data literacy program we want them to be excited and for them to feel like this is their program for their people. They ain't it and they're just as important as our head office. So everyone feels like they get an equal experience. So we've got the local rollouts and then I think after the local rollouts, it's about rewarding like really good use cases and really gives access stories, rewarding learners that are going above and beyond with their learning, rewarding people that are really putting their learning into practice. So we're going to have some like giveaways and we've got like some spotlights planned for like the intranet and at local town halls and stuff to really celebrate people and share good news stories and where there's best practice across the organization. And then, finally, I think it's just about making sure that we're taking these checkpoints to stop, pause, reflect on how well we've we've done and then look at areas where we might want to improve, because I think that's really important, measuring success. And then we couldn't really have a data literacy program and not be able to have the data behind it to show where it's been successful or not. So we're definitely begin to do that and we're looking at where we can strengthen areas were really good at, but then looking at where some of the gaps are, where do we need to encourage adoption, where do we need to give a bit more love and care, where do we need to perhaps refine and further fine chaine some of the learning we put on for people? And then, I suppose, like once we get to the end of that year, I think year two is them, probably because, because this year is just about delivering something for everyone, I think year two will be about actually working with different business units and actually getting into the nuts and bolts of how does this impact like your people day to day, like how can we actually impact people on a role and job specific level rather than just a general company wide level? That is awesome. Thank you so much, emily, for coming on the show. Before we wrap up, do you have any final cul to action? To know what I think you know? If there's anything that people can take away from this, is just being being enthusiastic about your program like find people that are really passionate about what you do and bring them on board and get people on board that are really gonna evangelize what your program is there to do and evangelize the benefits and bring it to life for people. I think that's like the final note. People will buy into it if you pull out the WOT's in it for me factor and make it really relevant to their job. Yeah, I think actually I will stick with like the what's in it for me fact, because I think that's the key thing. If you can bring that to life for people every step of the way. What's in it for me? What is the benefits? You should be on track to get really good adoption, providing that, obviously, you're learning content matches the what's in it for me statement as well. That is really great. Thank you so much, emily, for coming on the PODCAST. Thank you for having me. It's been such a pleasure. Thanks. IDOL. You've been listening to data framed, a podcast by data camp. Keep connected with us by subscribing to the show in your favorite podcast player. Please give us a rating, leave a comment and share episodes you love. That helps us keep delivering inside into all things data. Thanks...

...for listening. Until next time, H.

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